Explain to me why I should use FireFox again?

[Jason McCullough]

So, based on my use so far:

1. It's IE, except uglier!
2. And you can't use any activex controls.

Color me unimpressed, compared to Avant.

[Midnight Son]

So, based on my use so far:

1. It's IE, except uglier!
2. And you can't use any activex controls.

Color me unimpressed, compared to Avant.

1) It's much better than IE and can be easily made as pretty or ugly as you want.

2) Not using activex controls is a GOOD thing!

3) You are biased since your employer is the Great Satan, so no one should expect impartiality from you.

(Your politics are of course ok with me, comrade! :lol: )

[noun]

Which pages aren't loading correctly for you, Jason? I'm using Firefox and haven't had any problems with it.

[Nick Walter]

So, based on my use so far:

1. It's IE, except uglier!
2. And you can't use any activex controls.

Color me unimpressed, compared to Avant.

1.) ???? -- Which version/theme are you using? The default firefox .8 theme reminds me a lot of the newest IE stylistically. That bugs me, but should please anyone used to IE. The looks of any mozilla browser are highly customizable with themes.
2.) And this is a bad thing?

Reasons I like firefox

-- Tabbed Browsing. It's sort of like a scroll wheel on a mouse. Looks stupid the first time you see it. Once you use it for a month, you can't imagine how you existed before it.

-- Built in popup blocking, easily downloadable extensions for flash blocking. Hooray!

-- Looks and works smoothly (and identically) on lots of different platforms. At home I have a windows desktop and a linux server. At work I have a linux desktop. I can use one browser that looks and works the same on all of them

-- Completely dodges the security vulns in IE

-- Completely dodges the crapware aspects of IE (this is a big one for me). IE always seems to decay over time because all the share/free/trialware that I install ends up installating helpful "extensions" to IE regardless of whether I wanted them or not. It's nice to let IE degrade to unusable crap while I simply use a different browser

[Midnight Son]

IE is the biggest single security hole in windows. I have removed it completely using XP-LIte. http://www.litepc.com/xplite.html

(Enabling pipeling in Firefox speeds things up incredibly, too.)

[Jamie Madigan]

What's pipeling?

FWIW, there are a few sites that don't render correctly in FireFox, but it's mainly minor stuff. And come to think of it, almost all the ones I've found are Intranet sites for my employer, who state perfectly clearly that they're designing only for IE.

[DrCrypt]

Firefox 0.9 is (temporarily) a step-down from 0.8. Oh, it seems to add a lot of neat features and it loads a lot more quickly, but most of the extensions and themes for 0.8 that make Firefox such a joy to use don't work with it. Also, the default theme in 0.9 IS butt-ugly.... bizarre. since the 0.8 one is wonderful.

Guys like Midnight Son are amazingly righteous twits about promoting this browser, Jason, so I didn't like it at first either. However, now, I only load up IE when something (rarely) doesn't work in Firefox. I love tabbed browsing, I love my Google search window that can also immediately use the internet searches of almost any site under the sun, I love being able to highlight a word to immediately look it up, I love the fact that I never, ever, ever get spyware on my machine anymore, I love the way I can automatically copy an image location from the context menu (even surrounding it in [img] tags!), I think the gesture system is awesome, I love middle-click new window functionality, I love the built in flash and ad blockers, etc. In every way, it is a stronger browser than IE, and even when it doesn't work with a site (which, in my experience, is amazingly rare) it usually seems to be the fault of sloppy, IE-centric web design over some actual bug.

If you don't like 0.9, try installing 0.8 and fooling around with the extensions... they really make Firefox, imo.

[Midnight Son]

I'm glad this amazingly righteous twit was amazingly right. :lol:

[Timemaster Tim]

I switched from IE to Opera because of the convenience of tabbed browsing and popup blocking. My first trial of Firefox was disappointing. Adding in the Tabbedbrowsing extension alleviated the usability issues I had with the base tabbed browsing behaviour. Overall, I've found Firefox to be easier to use and has less page-whackiness than Opera when rendering sites that have been targetted at IE. The whole security thing is just an added bonus.

[noun]

Firefox 0.9 is (temporarily) a step-down from 0.8.

Ah, didn't know that. I'm happily using 0.8 here. Let's hope this isn't a trend for 1.0.

[DrCrypt]

noun, it's just a step down as far as extension and skin compatibility... I'm sure that'll be remedied within a couple weeks or so.

[Stroker Ace]

my heart weeps for the people who like using IE cause "the google toolbar does all that stuff too!"

i'm not evangelistic enough to really sit here and convert everyone, but the sheer betterness of firefox overwhelms many of us. EDIT: nevermind, yes i am.

Jason, if you're really hesitant about sites that don't render correctly (such as ActiveX sites that you trust), firefox has a little "Open this page in IE" plugin that adds an easy option on your context menus.

Firefox has type-ahead text searching. Hit the slash key (/) and you've just turned on the search feature. "/ m c c" and the next instance of McCullough is selected. F3 steps through all of the MCCs on the page.

It has "caret browsing". Hit f7 and you have a blinking cursor pop up on your web page that can be moved with the arrow keys (and you can hit shift+arrow, ctrl+arrow, etc. to move about and grab the text you want).

Firefox has Adblock and Flashblock, two of the plugins that helped me take the interweb back. Right now my browser just doesn't render the following items (I built this list myself):

[Adblock]
http://*.ad.*
http://*.adsdk.*
http://*.blueyonder.co*/*
http://*.doubleclick.*/*
http://*.gator.com/*
http://*.popupsponsor.*/*
http://*.tribalfusion.com/*
http://*/AD_Banner/*
http://*/adcouncil/*
http://*/ads*
http://*/ads/*
http://*/adv/*
http://*/marketing/*
http://*/sideads/*
http://*5dollarsoftware*
http://*BannerSource*
http://*ad?*
http://*adframe.php*
http://*advertising*
http://*klipmart*
http://ad.*
http://adds*
http://ads.*
http://images.anandtech.com/banners/*
http://images.cjb.net/images/*
http://images.salon.com/src/pass/*
http://spe.atdmt.com/*
http://us.a1.yimg.com/*
http://www.salon.com/Creatives/*

I use tabbed browsing EXTENSIVELY. Whenever I want to browse Qt3, I click my bookmark (did I mention Firefox's excellent bookmark management functionality?)

http://www.unix.eng.ua.edu/~dpritchett/img/bookmarks.PNG

and open http://www.quartertothree.com/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=newposts. This shows me all of the updated threads that have popped up since I last browsed Qt3 5 minutes ago. See how each post has a little orange icon next to its title? I middle-click that and it opens up in a new tab behind the one I'm looking at.

http://www.unix.eng.ua.edu/~dpritchett/img/orange.PNG

I scroll down the page of the 45 updated threads since I checked Qt3 last night, middle-click on the orange icon next to the 14 threads I actually care to check up on (hint: not many in P&R :wink: ), and now I've got 14 new tabs loaded up in the background and all ready to view. Did I mention that my taskbar isn't cluttered at all? no 10 instances of IE folded up into one IE icon on the taskbar. having a separate "tab-bar" in your browser is wonderful. I hit ctrl-w (or I middle-click on the tab I'm currently viewing, or I could hit ctrl-f4 if I cared to stretch my hand that far) and the index tab disappears.

Now I'm reading the first of the 14 threads I decided to check up on today. The orange link opened the thread to the new post, so I pick up my train of thought right where I left off 8 hours ago when I went to sleep. I read through a few posts, OMG Dave Long loves Nintendo and I need to make fun of him!!! I middle-click and drag a gesture out (in my case, a diagonal in the down/right direction, not one of those crazy Black and White gestures where you draw curlicues on the screen for five minutes - this gesture plugin couples straight-line gestures with visible radial pie menus to show you exactly what you're doing), and I've skipped down to the bototm of the page without moving my cursor near the scrollbar, without rolling my mousewheel for ten minutes to get to the bottom, without waiting a second for IE to "autoscroll" irregularly down to the bottom of the page.

http://www.unix.eng.ua.edu/~dpritchett/img/gesture.PNG

I click on the submit button, and I'm back to a regular browsing experience.

It was only recently that I realized just how efficient Firefox makes my Qt3'ing.

Jason, you have ten billion posts on Qt3. You owe it to yourself to reduce your workload at the per-post level. Get Firefox.

[MarchHare]

I like IE, but I like Firefox more. If IE incorporated tabbed browsing and had a "Flash click-to-play" plugin, I might switch back. Until then, Firefox it is.

[Ben]

I like Firefox(tabbed browsing really is the shit), but on my computer IE is noticably faster. And I couldn't find 'pipeling' to turn on.

Speed is more important than anything else. I've never had a security problem, googlebar takes care of most of my popup blocking needs, etc. Speed.

[Stroker Ace]

I like Firefox(tabbed browsing really is the shit), but on my computer IE is noticably faster. And I couldn't find 'pipeling' to turn on.

Speed is more important than anything else. I've never had a security problem, googlebar takes care of most of my popup blocking needs, etc. Speed.in my experience firefox is kinda slow on 9x but just fine on NT-based kernels. what OS are you running?

[Stroker Ace]

And I couldn't find 'pipeling' to turn on.

browse to "about:config". in the search blank type in "network.http.p" and it should filter the results down for you.

[TimElhajj]

Yes, but can firefox automatically insult my oppenents in the P&R forum? Can it make shit up and attribute it to people I choose? How about random accusations of an making a strawman or incontinent Scotsman argument? Can firefox do any of these things?

Bah-- silly little browser wars. :)

[Nick Walter]

Yes, but can firefox automatically insult my oppenents in the P&R forum? Can it make shit up and attribute it to people I choose? How about random accusations of an making a strawman or incontinent Scotsman argument? Can firefox do any of these things?

Bah-- silly little browser wars. :)

Stop Insulting the One True B rowser your liberal atheist dog.

--This Post Brought To You By FireFox AutoInsultComplete .9 --

[Derek Meister]

Crypt, maybe you should have at least given the Show Old Extensions (http://www.extensionsmirror.nl/index.php?showtopic=292) extension a shot, it was designed to show old style extensions in the new Extension Manager, and allow you to access their options dialogs and to disable/enable them in Firefox 0.9. [http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=79512]Here[/url] is the current list of recompiled 0.9 extensions.

I do like that you can check for extension and theme updates (http://update.mozilla.org/) by clicking on a button, and I have set the option to allow it to do this automatically. I also usually download one of the nightly rebuilds (http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/) around the fifth day after the initial release because most of the major bugs people are complaining about tend to get fixed by then.

The specific values suggested for tweaking can be found here (http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=53650) on the MozillaZine forums.

network.http.pipelining to "true"
network.http.proxy.pipelining to "true"
network.http.pipelining.maxrequests to "100"

It seems like every day I come across a story like this (http://news.com.com/IE+flaws+used+to+spread+pop-up+toolbar/2100-1002_3-5229707.html) or this (http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=117316298&eid=-255).

[Derek Meister]

The extremely adventureous can try some of the "optimized (http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=62390)" builds that people are making available from source code recompiled against specific processors and compile time options.

Semi-related: Thunderbird 0.7 (http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird) has also been released.

[DrCrypt]

Hey, Derek, thanks for the link, but it still won't show about 90% of my installed extensions. 0.9 obviously broke or changed something big. I'll wait.... I would have a hard time losing any functionality in my web browsing, so I'm happy to stick with 0.9 until they can manage to update my extensions, or at least most of them.

[asspennies]

Did you remember to uninstall firefox 0.8 before installing 0.9? It'll still save all your settings, but if you don't uninstall, it seriously messes with your plugins.

I had to basically wipe it clean (preserving my bookmarks file) and re-download the extensions I wanted after installing 0.9 cleanly. Even the old extensions - like popup alt - work fine and dandy if it's done cleanly.

[bago]

Meh. Firefox sometimes loads up pages about half-way, then the rest of the page turns into random binary spew.

Tabbed browsing. I liked it when it was called "open in new window".

[Qenan]

So, based on my use so far:

1. It's IE, except uglier!
2. And you can't use any activex controls.

Color me unimpressed, compared to Avant.

1. Looks OK to me, but maybe I'm not picky, I dunno. It's reskinnable.
2. Yay! I hate ActiveX and the associated security issues with passion.

Also, it has much much much better web development features.

[XPav]

So, based on my use so far:

1. It's IE, except uglier!
2. And you can't use any activex controls.

Jesus man, who really uses ActiveX controls in a web browser?

The only reason I use IE is for those very rare sites that don't like Firefox. And then, I've got the "IEView" extension.

Compared to other people, I apparently run rather extension free -- Adblock, All-In-One Gestures, IEView, and Googlebar.

[shift6]

So, based on my use so far:

1. It's IE, except uglier!
2. And you can't use any activex controls.

Color me unimpressed, compared to Avant.
So your reasons for not liking an IE substitute are:
1) the default theme is ugly.
2) it doesn't have a feature that only IE has anyways.

If this were the P&R forum, what fun we'd have with your post. :twisted:

[graller]

Mozilla has had tabbed browsing for over a year now. Why no love for Mozilla? I love the cookie manager, the popup blocker and the javascript console -> Yes I develop web pages that do funky things with JS, Soap and XMLHTTP functions.

[Jason McCullough]

1) the default theme is ugly.
2) it doesn't have a feature that only IE has anyways.

Correct!

Though I don't think a theme can fix the stupid layout on the tools/options/advanced page. Seriously, what were they thinking when the created that clunky-ass UI? And the privacy options bizarre-ass collapsability.

Nick, every feature you have listed is already in Avant.

I mean, if you want to use an uglier version of IE, great, but I'm not following why everyone likes it so much.

And I haven't gotten any spyware on my machine in like a year, since I finally set up all the security zone options in IE. Which reminds me: you can't do anything like that in Firefox.

Stroker, I'm already doing exactly what you described for QT3 browsing with Avant.

Mostly, I think it's just my rage at the UI. Why is the Bookmarks Toolbar folder offset from the flat border of the dropdown menu by a few pixels?

The NOIA theme (the most popular one) also offends me, though I can't quite say why.

[Brad Grenz]

And I haven't gotten any spyware on my machine in like a year, since I finally set up all the security zone options in IE. Which reminds me: you can't do anything like that in Firefox.

I think you'll find that's a side effect of the not having to.

[Jason McCullough]

True, but you also can't run it when you want to.

Here's a question: is there a way to disable scripting entirely in Firefox, like there is in IE?

[Brad Grenz]

The last time I ran any Active X it bluescreened my XP box, so I don't feel like I'm missing much.

You can uncheck the enable Java and Javascript boxes in Options->Web Features in Firefox.

[chet]

Popcap games use active-x. Zuma is reason enough to choose a browser.


Chet

[pieter]

Mozilla has had tabbed browsing for over a year now. Why no love for Mozilla? I love the cookie manager, the popup blocker and the javascript console -> Yes I develop web pages that do funky things with JS, Soap and XMLHTTP functions.

Firefox also contains Mozilla's DOM inspector now. You should also try out this Web Developer plugin (http://chrispederick.myacen.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/).

[cyborg]

Go on then.

[graller]

Mozilla has had tabbed browsing for over a year now. Why no love for Mozilla? I love the cookie manager, the popup blocker and the javascript console -> Yes I develop web pages that do funky things with JS, Soap and XMLHTTP functions.

Firefox also contains Mozilla's DOM inspector now. You should also try out this Web Developer plugin (http://chrispederick.myacen.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/).

WOW - Don't know how I missed that but thanks!

[Squirrel Killer]

Here's a question: is there a way to disable scripting entirely in Firefox, like there is in IE?

Do you mean the "Enable JavaScript" checkbox in the Web Features panel of the the Tools | Options dialog?

[Guido Jones]

I just don't get Tabbed browsing - I've had the option to use it in Mozilla/Netscape for over a year now, and honestly I'd rather have the 16 windows open. Easier to navigate between them (at least for me).

[Derek Meister]

There's an extension to disable tabs and act exactly as you'd want.

Once again, the ability to customize to your liking is one of Mozilla / Firefox's biggest strengths.

[Guido Jones]

Eh, I use Netscape 7.1 at home, and am more or less required to use IE at work because of the tools I use to do my job.

[JeffL]

I just don't get Tabbed browsing - I've had the option to use it in Mozilla/Netscape for over a year now, and honestly I'd rather have the 16 windows open. Easier to navigate between them (at least for me).

Thanks for saying that - I thought I was alone in that preference. I'm using Avant and like it a lot, but I would love to be able to turn off the tabbed browsing and have real windows instead. I'd just rather be able to alt-tab between them and other application windows.

[Nathan Phoenix]

better than pop up blocking is the feature that prevents anything FLASH from playing unless you allow it to. Anytime there would be flash on the page, it renders as a white box with 'click to play' in red. It makes browsing flash-ad heavy sites like gamespy SO much nicer.

[Jamie Madigan]

I use tabbed browsing EXTENSIVELY. Whenever I want to browse Qt3, I click my bookmark (did I mention Firefox's excellent bookmark management functionality?) and open http://www.quartertothree.com/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=newposts. This shows me all of the updated threads that have popped up since I last browsed Qt3 5 minutes ago.

Neat, but that URL doesn't seem to work for me. I just get "No topics or posts met your search criteria"

[Stroker Ace]

I use tabbed browsing EXTENSIVELY. Whenever I want to browse Qt3, I click my bookmark (did I mention Firefox's excellent bookmark management functionality?) and open http://www.quartertothree.com/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=newposts. This shows me all of the updated threads that have popped up since I last browsed Qt3 5 minutes ago.

Neat, but that URL doesn't seem to work for me. I just get "No topics or posts met your search criteria"it's based on some cookies and database values that keep track of what you have and havent read. there's a certain point where it assumes you've read everything if you close your session.

try the link again in half an hour maybe.

[Brian Minsker]

I like IE, but I like Firefox more. If IE incorporated tabbed browsing and had a "Flash click-to-play" plugin, I might switch back. Until then, Firefox it is.

Check out TurnFlash 2.10 at http://nirsoft.cjb.net/ . It's under the "Utilities" menu item. It sits in the system tray, and when you enable flash, every new window you open afterwards is flash-enabled.

[Derek Meister]

Why no love for Mozilla?

Mozilla 1.7 (http://mozilla.org/products/mozilla1.x/) was released today.

Happy now? ;)

[Brad Grenz]

I like IE, but I like Firefox more. If IE incorporated tabbed browsing and had a "Flash click-to-play" plugin, I might switch back. Until then, Firefox it is.

Check out TurnFlash 2.10 at http://nirsoft.cjb.net/ . It's under the "Utilities" menu item. It sits in the system tray, and when you enable flash, every new window you open afterwards is flash-enabled.

Wow, what an inelegant solution to a problem so simply solved in Firefox...

[DrCrypt]

I dunno, these counterpoints against Firefox are pretty absurd. Firefox, quite simply, can do almost anything that any other browser on the market can and a huge deal more, if not as part of the default installation than by installing the appropriate extension. If you're just basing your impression off of the default install, you owe it to yourself to play with some extensions and check out the really cool stuff you can do just by clicking the "Extensions" option in the menu and doing some browsing. I'm more than happy enough to sacrifice Active X so I can live a spyware and adware free existence.

Similarly, Jason's claims that Firefox is "ugly" is pretty dumb - um, it is fully skinnable. There's hundreds of skins available for it. Don't like the default? Just install a new one. I personally think the new default theme for 0.9 is horrible, but you can still install the old one.


Thanks for saying that - I thought I was alone in that preference. I'm using Avant and like it a lot, but I would love to be able to turn off the tabbed browsing and have real windows instead. I'd just rather be able to alt-tab between them and other application windows.
You can scroll through tabs in Firefox by just hitting Control-Tab, if that helps sell it to you. You can also set up Firefox not to use tabs.

[Kalle]

Give me some good reasons to switch from Opera to Firefox then.

[Jason McCullough]

Allow me to rephrase:

I don't have an infinite amount of time. Therefore, I didn't look at the tweaks, blah blah blah, because the real answer to "is this better than IE w/Avant" is "how much time do I want to spend figuring it out?"

I installed it, nothing amazing presented itself, so no, sure doesn't look like it.

[Stroker Ace]

you asked, we delivered. go enjoy your IE now.

[Jamie Madigan]

That's mind boggling. I just CAN'T see how you CAN'T see how FireFox is better than IE, for all the reasons people have said. When I first tried it, I was amazed. Your thoughts are alien and strange. But hey, have fun with IE.

[Midnight Son]

Guys, he works for Microshaft. There's no convincing him. It would be treason to Darth Gates. :lol:

[Andrew Mayer]

Meanwhile, I, who have been using this browser for the last two years picked up a bunch of great tips!

Thanks guys.

[Brian Minsker]

That's mind boggling. I just CAN'T see how you CAN'T see how FireFox is better than IE, for all the reasons people have said. When I first tried it, I was amazed. Your thoughts are alien and strange. But hey, have fun with IE.

Like Jason, I'm not seeing any compelling reason to switch (and, no, I don't work for MS and I generally prefer non-MS products). The base functionality seems somewhat limited, and I find the interface slightly user-hostile. Here's my impressions of Firefox after about a week:

1) It happily imported my favorites from IE, but put them in apparently random order (most recently modified?). If there's a "Sort by Name" option in managing bookmarks, particularly in subfolders, I can't find it. Clicking the "Name" bar doesn't seem to work any way that I would expect it to.

2) It has tabbed browsing, but provides no setting to open all new windows in tabs. I know there's an extension for it, but this seems like the most basic part of tabbed browsing that it ought to be built in.

3) The version I've got (0.9) is not terribly attractive, but since Firefox is skinnable, I go searching for a new theme. I find several, but the "click to install" doesn't seem to work.

4) It does a fine job with basic browsing, and I don't mind the lack of ActiveX controls since I leave them off in IE, but it seems like every little change requires that I track down an extension that may or may not be compatible with the ones I already have installed.

While I use a fair amount of Open Source software, I feel that Firefox suffers from the same problem as many OSS products, namely the assumption that all users are programmers and will spend a lot of time working to bend the tool to the shape they want. With IE being so dominant, what Firefox needs to do is provide the same basic ease of use that IE does as well as its extras (tabbed browsing, etc.). If it's a hassle to switch (and believe me, it is), the addition of a couple of extra features that are easily achieved in IE (such as tabs in MyIE2 or ad-blocking software) will not get the teeming millions to switch.

[Squirrel Killer]

I don't have an infinite amount of time. Therefore, I don't look at the tweaks, add-ons, security patches, blah blah blah for IE, because the real answer to "is this better than Firefox" is "how much time do I want to spend searching for every add-on to it that makes it more like Firefox?"

Also, many thanks to the good Dr. for the Ctl-Tab tip. I had been using Ctl-[1-9] shortcuts for as long as I can remember, but Ctl-Tab is the exact Alt-Tab functionality I knew had to be in there.

[Aszurom]

I use www.avantbrowser.com

It does the tabbed browsing thing as good/better than Firefox, has the popup, ad, flash blocking. And it actually renders websites CORRECTLY, which is something Mozilla just hasn't ever done. Yes, that's because all those fucking chump webmasters design for IE... oh well. Also, once the transition is made from old-school .asp websites to the new whiz-bang .NET stuff, then Mozilla is deader.

[Christien Murawski]

I already have Mozilla 1.6. Is Firefox sufficiently different to warrant installing it as well?

-Amanpour

[Poops McGee]

Part of my daily net regimine is to visit the various and sundry MP3 blogs I have favorited. With Firefox, I can right click my MP3 Blog subcategory in my bookmarks menu and select "Open in Tabs", which then puts every page in a tab, making it easy to check each for new stuff. I love this feature.

[Gary Whitta]

Remember, you must think in Russian!

[DrCrypt]

1) It happily imported my favorites from IE, but put them in apparently random order (most recently modified?). If there's a "Sort by Name" option in managing bookmarks, particularly in subfolders, I can't find it. Clicking the "Name" bar doesn't seem to work any way that I would expect it to.
Agreed. This drives me buggy as well. I suspect I'm just missing something, so if I am, someone clue me in, but it could be a bit less obtuse.


2) It has tabbed browsing, but provides no setting to open all new windows in tabs. I know there's an extension for it, but this seems like the most basic part of tabbed browsing that it ought to be built in.
It is built in. Type about:config in the browser bar and set broswer.tabs.opentabsfor.windowopen to "true".


3) The version I've got (0.9) is not terribly attractive, but since Firefox is skinnable, I go searching for a new theme. I find several, but the "click to install" doesn't seem to work.
Are you sure you are trying to install 0.9 themes? The latest update made some older themes incompatible. Make sure it says 0.9 compatible before you install it.


4) It does a fine job with basic browsing, and I don't mind the lack of ActiveX controls since I leave them off in IE, but it seems like every little change requires that I track down an extension that may or may not be compatible with the ones I already have installed.
Every single extension I have ever tried (barring ones that are attempting to do the exact same thing, like two different gestures extensions, which makes sense) is compatible with the other ones. I'm running about thirty extensions on my Firefox install... runs like a dream. Which specific extensions are you trying that are incompatible with the other ones?

[DrCrypt]

Part of my daily net regimine is to visit the various and sundry MP3 blogs I have favorited. With Firefox, I can right click my MP3 Blog subcategory in my bookmarks menu and select "Open in Tabs", which then puts every page in a tab, making it easy to check each for new stuff. I love this feature.
What's an mp3 blog?

[Derek Meister]

Crypt, there should be a list of MP3 Blogs at the bottom here: http://www.free-conversant.com/thom/main/2004/05/26

[Sean Tudor]

I downloaded the All-In-One Gestures utility for Firefox. The file is All-In-One_Gestures_0.11.1.xpi

Could someone explain how I install it ?

[JD]

Well, right-click on the file to open the context menu, select 'open with', choose FireFox as application to open the file and that should do it.

[Sean Tudor]

Well, right-click on the file to open the context menu, select 'open with', choose FireFox as application to open the file and that should do it.

Thanks - that did the trick.

[Ben Sones]

My only beef with Firefox (aside from a few random quirks like the favorites sorting thing) was page rendering speed. I like all the features, but slow page renders was a deal-breaker for me, so I stopped using it. Has it gotten any better in this regard?

[asspennies]

I've found firefox's rendering to be among the fastest out there.

I do think there was a problem with the "tabbrowser extensions" addon and page rendering - if a page wasn't exactly up to DOM, it would take a lot longer to load if you had the tabbrowser extensions addon installed. So that may have been what you were running in to.

I'm pretty sure that isn't an issue with 0.9 (though I'm not sure about that) but I don't use tabbrowser extensions anyway so it's no biggie on my part.

All I know is, just TRY debugging javascript with a non-mozilla browser. Just try.

[Ben]

Ben- Did you turn on pipelining?

[Midnight Son]

Turning on pipelining: Find the user.js file in the Mozilla profile. (Or create it using notepad.) Add these lines and save:


// Enable pipelining:
user_pref("network.http.pipelining", true);
user_pref("network.http.proxy.pipelining", true);
user_pref("network.http.pipelining.maxrequ ests", 100);

// This one makes a huge difference. Last value in milliseconds (default is 250)
user_pref("nglayout.initialpaint.delay", 0);

Reopen Firefox and enjoy.

[Midnight Son]

Also: sorting bookmarks. Get the Sort Bookmarks plugin. It adds a "sort bookmark" command to the bookmarks menu and alphabetizes the whole shebang including the subfolders.

-- Yer Friendly Guru

[Nathan Phoenix]

I just wanted to note that my favorite part of this whole thread was where the guy with 8500+ posts said that he didn't have the time to go through the options and tweak a browser.

[Ben Sones]

Ben- Did you turn on pipelining?

I didn't, no. In fact, I didn't know that such a tweak was possible. Just out of curiosity, if those settings are such a universal cure-all for slow rendering, why aren't they set that way by default? Are there really people out there that want slower page rendering as a feature?

I guess that's my other beef with FireFox--it's less like a browser, and more like a "build your own browser" kit for folks who enjoy fiddling with things. I enjoy fiddling with some things, but when it comes to web browsing, I'd rather have something simple and streamlined that just does its job, with little or no effort on my end. Maybe I'll give FireFox another shot, though.

[Jason McCullough]

I just wanted to note that my favorite part of this whole thread was where the guy with 8500+ posts said that he didn't have the time to go through the options and tweak a browser.

I learned my lesson about "customizable" open source. Shit takes days to set up.

[Nick Walter]

I learned my lesson about "customizable" open source. Shit takes days to set up.

That's a rather silly generalization. C'mon Jason, I know you are smarter than that.

Firefox can be setup and running in minutes in a quite usable fashion. The people who like to spend days customizing the crap out of it can do so, but that's for their own perverted enjoyment and not a necessity. To give a fair comparison, I find it easier to set up firefox than IE on a brand new windows install. At least firefox doesn't need third party add ons to support required (for me anyway) functionality like tabbed browsing or pop up blocking.

Here's how I installed firefox.

1.) Download the program

2.) Run the installer

3.) Opened up options and went to advanced. Made sure that "Hide the tab bar when only one website is open" was unchecked and "Open links in the background" was checked.

4.) Still in options, went to Extensions, clicked on "get new extensions" and installed the Flashblock extension.

5.) Still in options, under general, set QT3 as my homepage.

That's was it, the next step was begin browsing. I've never had to screw around with anything else to get firefox working like I want.

[Dave Perkins]

4.) Still in options, went to Extensions, clicked on "get new extensions" and installed the Flashblock extension.

The instructions on the Firefox website for Extensions say:

"To install an extension from this page, click on the install link. When the installation is complete, restart the browser."

When I click the install link, I get a popup that asks me if I want to Open the link or Save the link. I'm not sure what to do, nor can I find any more help than the sentence quoted above. Can you help?

Thanks in advance..

[Stroker Ace]

I just wanted to note that my favorite part of this whole thread was where the guy with 8500+ posts said that he didn't have the time to go through the options and tweak a browser.

I learned my lesson about "customizable" open source. Shit takes days to set up.And as we all know, a day lost for Jason is 11.51 posts lost to the Qt3 community. :P

[Jason McCullough]

Too late, uninstalled already. :D

[Warlord of Mars]

Ok. I think I'll throw a little wrench into the original question: Why should I choose Firefox over MyIE2?

[DrCrypt]

1) It happily imported my favorites from IE, but put them in apparently random order (most recently modified?). If there's a "Sort by Name" option in managing bookmarks, particularly in subfolders, I can't find it. Clicking the "Name" bar doesn't seem to work any way that I would expect it to.

Update on this issue: it only seems to effect the Bookmarks menu at the top. However, if you just open the Bookmarks sidebar (Control+B) they are all in the correct order. Not sure what the deal is, but using this extension (http://optimoz.mozdev.org/tweaks/) that autohides the sidebar, I find this to be a much easier way of accessing my bookmarks anyway.

[Al]

Why should I choose Firefox over MyIE2?You beat me to it. MyIE2 does all the same stuff that Firefox does and is more stable than Avant.

I've got Firefox installed for development mostly because everyone else in my group uses IE and I've found it to be nice but not worth dumping MyIE2 for.

[Duality]

The two things I use Firefox over any other browser are because of the customized search engines (a drop down to choose from IMDb, All Music Guide, astalavista, AnimeDB, Dictionary.com, UrbanDictionary, Wikipedia, Whatis.com, in addiition to Google) and the flash-blocking plugin.

[Midnight Son]

You should choose the open source Firefox over MYIE2 or IE or anything that depends on the IE rendering engine because it just feels right! And because you'd be showing off your leetness. And cool kids would like to hang wit' you.

Of course, if you prefer a 5 year old browser, that is your choice and I will support your right to choose.
:lol:

[Jason Becker]

So is FireFox just Mozilla without the newsgroup and email? I see people rave over Firefox but it just looks like slighty diffrent version of Mozilla. Don't really see the diffrence between the two, and hence the reason why Firefox is even around.

[Stroker Ace]

i'm tired of evangelizing. go enjoy your browsers.

[Midnight Son]

Can I have a "Close other Tabs," brethren? Yea-ahss! :lol:

[Nathan Phoenix]

I just wanted to note that my favorite part of this whole thread was where the guy with 8500+ posts said that he didn't have the time to go through the options and tweak a browser.

I learned my lesson about "customizable" open source. Shit takes days to set up.

Well I set my shit up in 15-20 minutes just from advice on these boards and googling for firefox extensions. I realize that you may not have a good sense of what goes into tweaking firefox. I assure you, you can handle it in short order if you choose to.

[XPav]

Jason is obviously too busy to spend 15-20 minutes installing extensions.

[extarbags]

I don't understand why they refuse to let me customize the interface in Firefox though.

[Ergo]

Your favorite browser sucks.

[Nick Walter]

I don't understand why they refuse to let me customize the interface in Firefox though.

Customize how?

There have been a few places where I wanted to control the contents of right click context menus and couldn't, but that's about the only non-customizable part of the interface. You might want to try right clicking on the toolbars or menus you don't like. There will probably be a "customize" option. You get a palette of possible buttons/menus for the interface that you can drag and drop right onto the various toolbars and menubars.

[Warlord of Mars]

You should choose the open source Firefox over MYIE2 or IE or anything that depends on the IE rendering engine because it just feels right! And because you'd be showing off your leetness. And cool kids would like to hang wit' you.

Of course, if you prefer a 5 year old browser, that is your choice and I will support your right to choose.
:lol:

"Just feels right"? You sound like a slashdotting teen. I think I'll stick with MyIE2 after all. I haven't heard a compelling reason to switch nor that it lacks a vital feature in comparison.

[Chris Nahr]

AvantBrowser is great. People who use Firefox suck.

[extarbags]

I don't understand why they refuse to let me customize the interface in Firefox though.

Customize how?

There have been a few places where I wanted to control the contents of right click context menus and couldn't, but that's about the only non-customizable part of the interface. You might want to try right clicking on the toolbars or menus you don't like. There will probably be a "customize" option. You get a palette of possible buttons/menus for the interface that you can drag and drop right onto the various toolbars and menubars.

Last time I used Firefox, it wouldn't let me put the tabs on the bottom. Is that changed?

[DrCrypt]

There might be some option in about:config for that, but Tabbrowser Extensions (http://white.sakura.ne.jp/~piro/xul/_tabextensions.html.en) takes care of that no problem. I have my tabs on the bottom right now. That's the point I really think so many of you are missing - extensions just allow you to do almost anything possible with Firefox, if you don't like the way it works default. And the idea that it takes "hours" to set them up is laughable unless you can't handle simply clicking a link, closing the browser and then magically having it all work.

[Midnight Son]

Well, there are certainly some people who can't handle the Firefox!
I advise them to stick to their evil empire mandated dreck.

[extarbags]

There might be some option in about:config for that, but Tabbrowser Extensions (http://white.sakura.ne.jp/~piro/xul/_tabextensions.html.en) takes care of that no problem. I have my tabs on the bottom right now. That's the point I really think so many of you are missing - extensions just allow you to do almost anything possible with Firefox, if you don't like the way it works default. And the idea that it takes "hours" to set them up is laughable unless you can't handle simply clicking a link, closing the browser and then magically having it all work.

But Opera does it by default. In fact, Opera is already just the way I want it. What does Firefox do extra?

[Nick Walter]

There might be some option in about:config for that, but Tabbrowser Extensions (http://white.sakura.ne.jp/~piro/xul/_tabextensions.html.en) takes care of that no problem. I have my tabs on the bottom right now. That's the point I really think so many of you are missing - extensions just allow you to do almost anything possible with Firefox, if you don't like the way it works default. And the idea that it takes "hours" to set them up is laughable unless you can't handle simply clicking a link, closing the browser and then magically having it all work.

But Opera does it by default. In fact, Opera is already just the way I want it. What does Firefox do extra?

Washes your car and services your wife.

[extarbags]

There might be some option in about:config for that, but Tabbrowser Extensions (http://white.sakura.ne.jp/~piro/xul/_tabextensions.html.en) takes care of that no problem. I have my tabs on the bottom right now. That's the point I really think so many of you are missing - extensions just allow you to do almost anything possible with Firefox, if you don't like the way it works default. And the idea that it takes "hours" to set them up is laughable unless you can't handle simply clicking a link, closing the browser and then magically having it all work.

But Opera does it by default. In fact, Opera is already just the way I want it. What does Firefox do extra?

Washes your car and services your wife.

Pshht! My phone does those...

[Stroker Ace]

WEB BROWSERS ARE FOR MORANS!

[DrCrypt]

Are you fucking idiots talking in circles here or what? "What exactly does Firefox have over browser x?", "Well, it has extensions, which allow you to easily do y, z, or anything else you want", "Yeah, but Browser X has y for default. Why exactly should I switch?" It's like I'm a three-dimensional cube sucked into fucking flatland or something.

Great, Opera or IE or whatever works exactly the way you want it to. I'm happy for you. My point is that you are always going to be limited to what that browser can do by "default". Is there a feature you'd really like, or some idiosyncrocy you don't want to deal with in Opera? I bet there is, but tough, you're never going to get it fixed unless the dev team highlights it. Meanwhile, that exact same functionality has just been programmed in an evening into Firefox by some coder and can be installed with a simple mouse click, without breaking anything. So essentially I can easily mod Firefox to have any functionality I want for free and meanwhile you're paying for Opera (or having them serve you banner ads) and praying for updates or using IE and dealing with a host of inherent security flaws.

I swear, it's like you guys just closed Firefox the second it wasn't exacly like whatever browser you had already decided you were gonna stick with in the first place without even trying the feature that could make it have the functionality of anything you could dream up.

[extarbags]

Are you fucking idiots talking in circles here or what? "What exactly does Firefox have over browser x?", "Well, it has extensions, which allow you to easily do y, z, or anything else you want", "Yeah, but Browser X has y for default. Why exactly should I switch?" It's like I'm a three-dimensional cube sucked into fucking flatland or something.

Great, Opera or IE or whatever works exactly the way you want it to. I'm happy for you. My point is that you are always going to be limited to what that browser can do by "default". Is there a feature you'd really like, or some idiosyncrocy you don't want to deal with in Opera? I bet there is, but tough, you're never going to get it fixed unless the dev team highlights it. Meanwhile, that exact same functionality has just been programmed in an evening into Firefox by some coder and can be installed with a simple mouse click, without breaking anything. So essentially I can easily mod Firefox to have any functionality I want for free and meanwhile you're paying for Opera (or having them serve you banner ads) and praying for updates or using IE and dealing with a host of inherent security flaws.

I swear, it's like you guys just closed Firefox the second it wasn't exacly like whatever browser you had already decided you were gonna stick with in the first place without even trying the feature that could make it have the functionality of anything you could dream up.

Chill out, doc. I'm seriously asking you what features are available to be added into it, and if you say something that I might like, I'll check it out and maybe switch. I'm asking because I can't think of anything offhand that I want in a browser that Opera doesn't have, but that doesn't mean that if you say there's a plugin for Firefox that will just pop out and fellate me, I'll say "oh... no thanks, I prefer non-fellating web browsers."

[Stroker Ace]

there are currently 69 extensions for the windows build of firefox that came out last week go have a look for yourself and see if any of them excite you:
http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/showlist.php?type=E&application=firefox&category=&numpg=50&os=windows&version=0.9&submit=Update

my new favorite: BugMeNot. I tried to follow McCullough's link to the washington post but was rejected by a "please register" screen. I right clicked for my context menu and clicked "bugmenot" and a popup appears giving me someone else's washington post login. I read the story, and the WP went and fucked itself.

Makes a grown man cry.

[extarbags]

I have to admit, Bible Toolbar sounds exciting.

[extarbags]

Ok, I'm going to try it again, for the sake of Undo Closed Tab.

[Doug Erickson]

I don't find IE in any way limiting.

[Stroker Ace]

I don't find IE in any way limiting.you might find another browser liberating.

[DrCrypt]

Okay, extarbags, sorry about that. I'm honestly not like Midnight Son in his blind zealotry, but self-perpetuating sophistry really ends up annoying me, regardless the topic.

You can check out Firefox 0.9's available extensions here. Keep in mind that 0.9 was just released and it broke existing extension compatibility so these are just the new ones...

http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/showlist.php?type=E&application=firefox&category=&numpg=50&os=windows&version=0.9&submit=Update

0.8 had a much larger pool to draw from. Some of these still work with the "Show Old Extensions" update... if there's anything there that really grabs your fancy, you should go with 0.8... I don't think 0.9 is necessarily much of an improvement on it.

http://texturizer.net/firefox/extensions/

A lot of the stuff I use is merely functional, so mouse gestures, lots of context menu options for automatic lookups of terms in dictionaries and encyclopedias, the web developer extensions, various extensions that enrich tab functionality, etc. I also use the Automatic Download Sorter and Download Statusbar extensions, the Chatzilla IRC client, the Quicknote extension (sort of a post-it for your browser), etc. I also used to use the Bookmark Synchronizer to keep my bookmarks synchronized between four different locations and computers.

Edit: Okay, looks like the texturizer.net link isn't exclusively for 0.8. Rather, the first link is simply extensions hosted by Mozilla itself, the other is a user database, so there's a good chunk of 0.9 extensions mixed in.

[Nick Walter]

there are currently 69 extensions for the windows build of firefox that came out last week go have a look for yourself and see if any of them excite you:
http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/showlist.php?type=E&application=firefox&category=&numpg=50&os=windows&version=0.9&submit=Update

my new favorite: BugMeNot. I tried to follow McCullough's link to the washington post but was rejected by a "please register" screen. I right clicked for my context menu and clicked "bugmenot" and a popup appears giving me someone else's washington post login. I read the story, and the WP went and fucked itself.

Makes a grown man cry.

Holy shit, there's an extension to use BugMeNot automatically now?

I hereby correct my previous post:

Firefox washes your car, services your wife, AND cleans your house!

[Midnight Son]

Yo Crypt, you seem to be having problems distinguishing between feigned blind zealotry and the real thing. It's a great browser, you can customize it no end, and I love it. But some people just can't be convinced to try something else for a week or so. That's their loss but I'm not a zealot about it!

[DrCrypt]

Extension for the Bookmark sorting issue:

http://texturizer.net/firefox/extensions/#sortbookmarks

Works fine in 0.9.

[cyborg]

I'm writing a fucking syntax highlighting editor using Mozilla as a cross platform base - do that in IE.

Mozilla et al kick all kinds of shit all over other browsers with XPFE.

[chet]

So why don't one of you smarties write a real IE importer. The default fails everytime for me or anyone else I know. No way am I retyping in all my passwords/stored logins etc.

Chet

[shift6]

I learned my lesson about "customizable" open source. Shit takes days to set up.
Microsoft's new hire sez: spending 15 minutes configuring a program = compiling shit from source in teh Lenoox.

Seriously dude. Days to set up a web browser? :roll:

[Jason McCullough]

Of course it doesn't take a day. My tolerance for tweaking the shit of out frequently released & crap UI design open-source products - which they all seem to be - is pretty low.

[Midnight Son]

Typical Microshaft mindset: "you'll use it the way we provide it and you'll like it." Once you tweak Firefox you can leave it alone forever. Many of us have posted all kinds of help and links to useful extensions. It that's too much work for ya, that's too bad. :P

[Jason McCullough]

Nope, I got that way before I even started contracting there, after having to tweak an app for the millioneth unnecessary time.

[bago]

From my parents home in Wyoming, I stab at thee! (http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-07-22&res=l)

[cyborg]

I'm still bemused by where you get this 'crap UI' design stuff from.

[Jason McCullough]

http://mpt.phrasewise.com/2002/04/13

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html

[Brad Grenz]

I love paste and go, text links, dictionary search. And I just looked into adding engines to the search bar. There are hundreds of plugins! Now I can choose from Google, IMDB, Amazon, Ebay, Newegg and Pricewatch. That's some sweet stuff.

[chet]

Jason your justification for your ignorance is that someone in 2002 said open source software COULD have a bad UI? I hate tweaking so much, I refuse to play games that make me tweak their config files, there is no tweaking in mozilla. Click on an extra, install it.

Admittedly, IE does have that nice feature of just walk by a website and they can install their add-on for you. Because you know, you can never get enough extra popup ads.

Chet

[Jason McCullough]

Saucy!

Erik Raymond's is from April, if it matters.

[XPav]

http://mpt.phrasewise.com/2002/04/13

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html
What, do you want to make me go find my copy of Microsoft Bob and claim that no Microsoft program can have good UI? Or perhaps I just have to mention that stupid fucking dog that popups everytime I hit F3 nowadays...

[Jason McCullough]

Didn't say Microsoft was perfect; I said they're better. Go take it up with Raymond.

[chet]

Wait Jason, if I find a bad RTS, can I dismiss the entire RTS genre? Your argument doesn't even come close to being based on reality.

Also, there was no time limit on your response. So in all the time you had, you could find two links, one from 2002. The other about installing a service on Linux itself. Should we give you more time to find a really damning link?

I will pre-counter you.
http://www.whenu.com/
http://www.claria.com/
http://www.180solutions.com/

That is what non-open source software gave us. I guess the additional popups empower me as UI enhancements?

Chet

[Jason McCullough]

What on earth are you talking about? Is "in general, open-source usability is wildly inferior to that of closed-source applications" really a controversial statement?

[Brad Grenz]

Only in the sense that's it's such a broad generalization as to have no application in this particular discussion. Firebird is open source UI at it's best. IE has no advantage here, other than being older, and therefore more familiar. But that has nothing to do with the inherent quality of a UI design.

[chet]

Jason what are you talking about? You don't want to deal with Firefox, so instead of talking particulars, you throwup wild general statements. So my comparison to another general statement about RTSs which you could see as ludicrous, just shows how ludicrous your statement is about firefox.

Chet

[chet]

And to go further, if you somehow don't think the proliferation of predatory BHOs is because of MS, well, not sure what to tell you. No other browser allows people to hijack it by design without consent.

Chet

[Jason McCullough]

Not arguing on browser hijacks; I was just using the larger general point as an example. Firefox isn't horrible, but it's not as good as IE in that department.

[chet]

In what point? Being easily hijacked? Yes, you are 100% correct. Microsoft, not content to having their OS be full of holes so that trojans and viruses can be installed, have taken it upon themselves to create a Trojan delivery system known as IE.

Yes, you are 100% correct on that point Jason. IE excels at its ability to download and install software I do not want without my consent.

That is your point right? Or are you seriously trying to argue that Firefox can't be good, because some other piece of software out there, that you once read about being installed, was not up to snuff. I don't think even you are insane enough to be arguing that.

Chet

[DrCrypt]

Gee, Jason, I know posting more than ten words to clarify your previous assertion would really marginalize your capacity for a further 11.22 posts today of vapid, explanationless drivel, but maybe you could anyway? Seriously - what is wrong with the UI in Firefox? Maybe something specific in its UI design that IE does better than Firefox? It's not even that I doubt you that IE can do a couple things better than Firefox in this regard, but it's like you couldn't even be arsed to identify them. Unless you're just gonna say it is "ugly" again, in which case, maybe you could clarify how Firefox and all of its available themes' "ugliness" is a worse trade-off than IE's blatant security flaws.

Here are my problems with Firefox: it doesn't make that little "click" sound when I click a link like IE does. Also, the options menu is curiously limited.... there's a lot of stuff in the about:config that probably should be included under Tools -> Options but isn't.

[SpaceFish]

I tried to switch from IE to Firefox a while ago. I thought it was great until Firefox decided to eat all my bookmarks. Now I just stick to IE with Google Toolbar to avoid any future hassle.

[Brad Grenz]

Here are my problems with Firefox: it doesn't make that little "click" sound when I click a link like IE does.

Really, that's one of my favorite parts. No stupid browsing sounds! Never again will I have a heart attack after forgetting my speakers were cranked and then clicking a link.

[Derek Meister]

So am I the only one amused by how Jason, when taken out of P&R and put into a software discussion, becomes Bob Cherub?

One thing Jason neglects to note when he holds up ESR's article on CUPS is that the developers took what he said as constructive criticism and issued fixes a week later, something he'd be hard pressed to show Microsoft doing in response to a UI complaint.

If we're going to hold up people who complain about user interfaces as proof that a particular piece of software sucks, then would we need to do that with the default Windows XP interface, which you take your life in your own hands by saying you don't mind on some of the more hardcore software forums? I mean, personally I like XP much better than 2000, so it'd be a shame if we started holding all software to Jason's standards.

[Midnight Son]

DOGPILE! :wink:

[cyborg]

Am I the only one who noticed this in Jason's links?


Many hackers assume that whatever Microsoft or Apple do is good design, when this is frequently not the case. In imitating the designs of these companies, volunteer projects repeat their mistakes, and ensure that they can never have a better design than the proprietary alternatives.

[Ben Sones]

Seriously - what is wrong with the UI in Firefox?

I'll take a crack at that, since I've been trying out .9 today.

Firefox's tabbed browsing still sucks. With the right extensions, it's useable, but you won't find those extensions on the official Firefox extensions site. The browser still lacks built-in support for single-window use, which in my opinion makes tabbed browsing even worse (and far more confusing) than non-tabbed browsing. When I have multiple tabs in multiple browser instances, it gets really hard to keep track of things. CTRL-N and shift-click still open new instances rather than new tabs, even with the "Single Window" extension. Clicking links in the interface opens new instances rather than new tabs, even with the Single Window extension. The Tabbrowser extension forces shift-click to open new tabs, which is nice, but it "fixes" the CTRL-N problem by disabling it altogether. Which is annoying, since I habitually use CTRL-N to open new browser windows. It's telling that they have an extension designed solely to disable tabbed browsing. Ideally, nobody should want such an extension, but it seems to be a pretty popular download.

When typing (like right now), the the browser renders the type cursor in such a way that it partially overlaps the previous space/letter, making it difficult to tell where it is. A minor annoyance, but it is annoying. It also tends to render borders and margins smaller than IE, and sometimes eliminates them altogether, which sometimes makes pages look crappy. For instance, the type in this type field in which I am currently typing runs all the way up to the bold, black border of the field, making it difficult to read. In IE, there is an extra pixel or so of white space within the field and a less bold black border, making it easier to read. On the main Qt3 page, the tail of the big "Q" actually touches the ad banner below it. In IE, there is some white space (er, black space) between the two. On the Google homepage, the buttons below the search field butt right up to the field, touching it. In IE, there is space between them. And so on.

When you open a new tab, the browser will not open your homepage, even if you tell it to do so in options. I just get a blank page, no matter what. The Tabbrowser extension fixes this, fortunately, but it's annoying that I need to rely on extensions to fix broken features.

Like John, I like audio feedback when I click on things. Firefox does not support standard Windows sound settings, so no clicky noise. That's great for those of you who don't like the clicky noise anyway, but for those of us who do, there's not even an option to turn it on.

It seems like each new version of Firefox breaks a significant number of the available extensions, which is a problem when your browser relies heavily on extensions for basic functionality like bookmark sorting. Several of the handful of extensions that I downloaded with my new .9 install don't seem to work at all.

Sometimes Firefox lets me drag a link directly to my link toolbar from the address bar, sometimes it doesn't.

Firefox still renders pages slower than IE, but it's gotten a lot better in this regard. Enough so that I'm willing to continue using it for a few days, to see if it grows on me. It does have some features that I like (like that extension that lets you treat a text link like a hyperlink).

The "more secure" feature seems a bit overblown, though. Is it really that big a deal that Firefox has no ActiveX support? I mean, you can turn off ActiveX in IE, too, so what's the big deal?

[Stroker Ace]

When you open a new tab, the browser will not open your homepage, even if you tell it to do so in options. I just get a blank page, no matter what. The Tabbrowser extension fixes this, fortunately, but it's annoying that I need to rely on extensions to fix broken features.
this is the firefox ethos. firefox was created as a reactionary response to the bloat of the mozilla browser. it is lean and mean out of the box. if you have a problem with tabs (i know IE's out-of-the-box tabs could use some work :wink:), there is an easily downloaded extension available for it. tools -> extensions -> get more extensions. firefox will never come with a comprehensive feature set. opera takes the kitchen-sink approach, IE takes the one-size-fits-all approach, and firefox takes the "add and remove any feature at will" approach. firefox will never ever ship with as many features as opera, but it will always have more total features available to it via extensions.

one thing that's really eating me here is that people (chet) complain of the pain of migrating their passwords/bookmarks from IE to firefox. the potential increases in browsing efficiency have GOT to be worth it to anyone who spends his workday browsing a gamer's forum ;) (note: if you eat sleep and drink ActiveX, firefox can't help you.)


It seems like each new version of Firefox breaks a significant number of the available extensions, which is a problem when your browser relies heavily on extensions for basic functionality like bookmark sorting. Several of the handful of extensions that I downloaded with my new .9 install don't seem to work at all. firefox has unfortunately not reached the 1.0 landmark. things are changing significantly on the backend with every release up to 1.0. i hope that once 1.0 comes out you will no longer have this issue and the major design elements will remain intact, allowing for seamless upgrades.

[chet]

The last time i had to reset all my cookies and passwords - it took me over 10 hours. So while I slowly move over stuff, no way is it a trivial event to move from one browser to another for me.

I think since on two seperate pcs for me, and 3 other people I asked had the same issue, it is valid to raise that as a complaint.

Chet

[Stroker Ace]

The last time i had to reset all my cookies and passwords - it took me over 10 hours. So while I slowly move over stuff, no way is it a trivial event to move from one browser to another for me.

I think since on two seperate pcs for me, and 3 other people I asked had the same issue, it is valid to raise that as a complaint.

Chetin your case, i agree. not sure how many weeks of firefox efficiency it would take to make up for 10 hours of transfer time. i'm still guessing it wouldn't be many. as a large-scale webmaster you may have special needs that the average user doesn't anticipate.

[Ben Sones]

(i know IE's out-of-the-box tabs could use some work :wink:),

Honestly, they work better than Firefox's. And while I know you were being facetious, I'm 100% serious. I'm cool with the "build your own browser" approach, but the built-in tabbed browsing isn't just feature-light, it's poorly designed. Half the stuff that the available extensions fix should have never been broken to begin with. If anyone can explain why I would ever want to use tabbed browsing and multiple browser instances at the same time--which is how Firefox is designed to work--please do so. The default "sometimes stuff opens a new tab, sometimes a new window" approach is more confusing than having no tabbed browsing at all.


there is an easily downloaded extension available for it. tools -> extensions -> get more extensions.

The only one I see there--for both .8 and .9--is the Single Window extension. It's better than nothing, but it has problems. The Tabbrowser extension is better, but still not perfect. None of the extensions make Firefox's tabbed browsing as good as, say, Avant's. And yeah, I know--Avant has other problems, which is why I don't use it. But I don't think it's unreasonable to wish that Firefox's tabbed browsing was better.


firefox has unfortunately not reached the 1.0 landmark. things are changing significantly on the backend with every release up to 1.0. i hope that once 1.0 comes out you will no longer have this issue and the major design elements will remain intact, allowing for seamless upgrades.

That's my hope, too. In fact, given the extension-heavy design, I think the success of the product pretty much relies on this.

[cyborg]

But I don't think it's unreasonable to wish that Firefox's tabbed browsing was better.

Well either:

1) Write it yourself.
2) TELL THEM ABOUT IT. The developers are not psychic - they cannot know about issues people have if people do not tell them. There's a diverse bunch of people working on this stuff, maybe you should talk to the people doing MultiZilla? I use it and it may give you the control you want over tabs. Check out http://multizilla.mozdev.org

[Stroker Ace]

If anyone can explain why I would ever want to use tabbed browsing and multiple browser instances at the same time--which is how Firefox is designed to work--please do so.
I've read that some people like to use one window per site. Try one window full of qt3 tabs and another window for casual browsing, that sorta thing. i will admit that my own use of newtab vs. newwindow is fairly haphazard.

[cyborg]

That's my hope, too. In fact, given the extension-heavy design, I think the success of the product pretty much relies on this.

It's not extension heavy - it's ALL extensions in effect. Everything is XPFE based, for a laugh put chrome://navigator/content/navigator.xul in your URL.

[DrCrypt]

If anyone can explain why I would ever want to use tabbed browsing and multiple browser instances at the same time--which is how Firefox is designed to work--please do so. The default "sometimes stuff opens a new tab, sometimes a new window" approach is more confusing than having no tabbed browsing at all.
Personally, I use this functionality all the time, and I'd be sort of pissed if I lost it. Having multiple, tabbed instances of Firefox allows me to keep a handle on lots of different workstreams at the same time. Personally, I don't see any difference between having 16 browser windows ejaculated into the taskbar and 16 simply ejaculated into a single window session - it all makes for confusing browsing. The way Firefox is set up default works well for me, because I can further categorize the windows according to what I'm work on in them.

[Stroker Ace]

one of my favorite 0.8 extensions that hasn't made the jump to 0.9 yet is "session saver". i'm a pretty inattentive clicker, so sometimes i'll close a window with 50000 tabs on it. firefox already asks me to confirm if i want to close a window with > 1 tabs on it, but sometimes I do that and regret it anyway. hell maybe my boss is coming aroudn the corner or something, i dunno. anyway, next time i start up a firefox window it reloads all of the tabs i had open last time. that was cool, i hope they update it.

caveat: it sucks when you come in monday morning discover that the last thing you looked at on friday was amihotornot or tubgirl or something. i can't remember exactly what pages i'm talking about here, but i've had several "oh shit" moments on mondays with that extension.

[Kalle]

one of my favorite 0.8 extensions that hasn't made the jump to 0.9 yet is "session saver". i'm a pretty inattentive clicker, so sometimes i'll close a window with 50000 tabs on it. firefox already asks me to confirm if i want to close a window with > 1 tabs on it, but sometimes I do that and regret it anyway. hell maybe my boss is coming aroudn the corner or something, i dunno. anyway, next time i start up a firefox window it reloads all of the tabs i had open last time. that was cool, i hope they update it.


...or you could just use Opera... :roll:

[Stroker Ace]

one of my favorite 0.8 extensions that hasn't made the jump to 0.9 yet is "session saver". i'm a pretty inattentive clicker, so sometimes i'll close a window with 50000 tabs on it. firefox already asks me to confirm if i want to close a window with > 1 tabs on it, but sometimes I do that and regret it anyway. hell maybe my boss is coming aroudn the corner or something, i dunno. anyway, next time i start up a firefox window it reloads all of the tabs i had open last time. that was cool, i hope they update it.


...or you could just use Opera... :roll:go make your own topic about opera for me to troll please.

[cyborg]

Again check out http://multizilla.mozdev.org/ I haven't tried it on FireFox but it's certainly comprehensive.

[Kalle]

...or you could just use Opera... :roll:go make your own topic about opera for me to troll please.

Thank you for your kind offer, but I much prefer to remain here and insert my insidious and annoying Opera fanboi-ism whenever an opportunity presents itself, with the aim to divert attention from the merits of a certain open-source web browser and being a general nuisance whilst simultaneously padding my post-count.

In other words.

Opera r00lZ ur azz.

[Stroker Ace]

excellent point, i'm only a few points away from level 10 here on Qt3: The Post Project.

[Kalle]

excellent point, i'm only a few points away from level 10 here on Qt3: The Post Project.

0nly lvl 10? u suck lam3r N00b. 1'm lvl 1866. u r my bitch

[Anders Hallin]

You misunderstand the system, Kalle, you're level 18 with 6½ bubs.

[Jason McCullough]

So am I the only one amused by how Jason, when taken out of P&R and put into a software discussion, becomes Bob Cherub?

One thing Jason neglects to note when he holds up ESR's article on CUPS is that the developers took what he said as constructive criticism and issued fixes a week later, something he'd be hard pressed to show Microsoft doing in response to a UI complaint.

If we're going to hold up people who complain about user interfaces as proof that a particular piece of software sucks, then would we need to do that with the default Windows XP interface, which you take your life in your own hands by saying you don't mind on some of the more hardcore software forums? I mean, personally I like XP much better than 2000, so it'd be a shame if we started holding all software to Jason's standards.

Did all of open-source usability get fixed in response to Eric's article when I wasn't looking?

Ben's complaints are the kind of stuff that annoyed me about it.

If IE was the only option, yeah, Firefox would be better. But it's not; Avant IMHO is lot better than Firefox.

[Midnight Son]

Jason just doesn't get it. Big Brother done got you snowed, bwah!

[Stroker Ace]

You misunderstand the system, Kalle, you're level 18 with 6½ bubs.thank you anders.

[Chris Nahr]

Firefox lovers have bad breath and hate America. Honest upstanding citizens use Avant Browser.

[Stroker Ace]

Firefox lovers have bad breath and hate America. Honest upstanding citizens use Avant Browser.ignore the foreign demagogue, he pollutes the minds of our youth.

[Anders Hallin]

I think I saw Christoph with some of his acolytes in Boomtown the other night ;)

[Midnight Son]

Firefox lovers have bad breath and hate America. Honest upstanding citizens use Avant Browser.

You know, Avant sounds kind of French and UN-American.... :lol:

[steve]

I'm amazed that people care this much about web browsers. Maybe y'all browse more than I do, but for the few dozen sites I might visit in a day, I'm more focused on the site itself than the interface for my browser.

In fact, I wish website interfaces didn't suck so much, but oh well. IE or Firefox or Opera can't fix that.

[Derek Meister]

Did all of open-source usability get fixed in response to Eric's article when I wasn't looking?

Thanks for making the joke about you being Cherub outside of P&R even more poignant than it was before. ;)

ESR wrote his article with a primary focus on problems he had with CUPS, which the developers were more than cheerfull about fixing when someone pointed them out to them, but then went on to apply to open-source in general. The problem is that it's exactly that, a generalization.

Now you're attempting to use that article to imply that all open-source applications have UI problems, with the converse implication being that closed-source products are therefore better because they don't. Unfortunately, that's not any less of a generalization, nor any more true.

Seriously, next time you attack Cherub about falling back on "neocon talking points", I'm going to snicker to myself about "Microsoft-centric talking points". :o

I'm just teasing you, Jason, but damn sometimes it seems like you take your company just as seriously as the crazed-loon zealots who refer to it as "M$".

I keep seeing people say that programs like Avant and MyIE2 are automatically better than Mozilla or Firefox because they take the IE engine and put a "better" interface on top.

Most people know I love my 1984 Fiero, though the body is twenty years old, so there are holes in the seats and paint is full of scratches. I could spend a few grand and get one of those conversion kits and make my Fiero up into a nice red Lamborghini, complete with accurate interior, leather seats and a sweet sound system. The problem is, underneath it all, it would still be an underpowered 4-cylinder car with a lacking steering system.

The reason I stay clear of the Avants and the like isn't solely because I like Firefox's user interface or even it's open-source nature. It's because it doesn't have the IE engine underneath opening me up to the same problems that a regular IE install faces.

[Stroker Ace]

"Closed source" includes everything under the sun from WinZip to Windows XP. Private development doesn't insure quality. Corporate development is a little better, but not in all cases.

http://digilander.libero.it/chiediloapippo/Engineering/iarchitect/shame.htm

http://digilander.libero.it/chiediloapippo/Engineering/iarchitect/mactrash.gif

As a means of deleting files and documents, the Macintosh trashcan is a perfectly intuitive metaphor. Unfortunately, the designers decided to extend the trashcan metaphor to include the completely counterintuitive function of ejecting diskettes: drag an image of the diskette to the trashcan to eject it from the computer.

The Macintosh simply took the trashcan metaphor too far. They imbued the trashcan with magical powers that are completely incompatible with the established metaphorical association of deleting files. As a result, new users express anxiety and dismay at the metaphor, and even experienced users express reluctance to use the metaphor: "I don't want to delete the files on the diskette, I just want the computer to spit it out."

[Jason McCullough]

My perceived Microsoft zealotry greatly amuses me.

[Kalle]

You misunderstand the system, Kalle, you're level 18 with 6½ bubs.

Pfft. Going by CoH standards 1866 xp means lvl 2 with one and a half bub to lvl 3. But clearly I am much to l33t to be stuck at lvl 2 still, and Qt3 is a fast-levelling server, so I must be lvl 1867 :P

[Midnight Son]

My perceived Microsoft zealotry greatly amuses me.

Hey, don't you think it's time to change add the words ZOMBIE and AAAARRHHH to the title of this thread?

[extarbags]

Ok, I've got Firefox all set up. Found a nice theme and everything.

Tab Browser Extensions basically gives it every function that Opera comes with, and there are a few other extensions I installed that add more cool stuff. It seems pretty decent, but I'm over Remote Desktop right now so I can't really judge its speed.

I might have switched.

[Peter Frazier]

Just make sure you get the new skin with the blotchy orange and yellow colour scheme. :wink:

[Midnight Son]

Ok, I've got Firefox all set up. Found a nice theme and everything.

Tab Browser Extensions basically gives it every function that Opera comes with, and there are a few other extensions I installed that add more cool stuff. It seems pretty decent, but I'm over Remote Desktop right now so I can't really judge its speed.

I might have switched.

Yo, read in this thread about how to setup pipelining for increased performance.

[shift6]

I'm amazed that people care this much about web browsers. Maybe y'all browse more than I do, but for the few dozen sites I might visit in a day, I'm more focused on the site itself than the interface for my browser.

In fact, I wish website interfaces didn't suck so much, but oh well. IE or Firefox or Opera can't fix that.
As a former web designer: amen.


My perceived Microsoft zealotry greatly amuses me.
I think it's your anti-open source development model zealotry. And it is amusing.

[stusser]

Things I like better about opera than firefox:

1) The mouse gestures work more consistently. Sometimes they just don't "catch" in firefox, particularly while pages are being loaded.

2) The mouse gesture extensions for firefox don't allow you to configure mouse chording. I use that.

3) The GUI is more responsive in opera, being a native application and not that gnarly XUL shit.

4) Zooming in opera is hella-cool. It zooms images too, which is nice since I run at high resolution.

5) Cache operations are much faster in opera. Things like going back in your history a dozen pages are basically instantaneous. Opera feels really fast.

Things I like better about firefox than opera:

1) Gmail works

2) Page rendering is faster. This is only noticeable in benchmarks though, while the cache speedyness in opera is obvious.

3) It's free. (but I paid for opera already)

4) You can download nightly builds from mozillazine specially optimized for your CPU that offer absolutely no benefit other than being somewhat buggier but allow you to feel like you're doing something useful with your time.

[Jason McCullough]

I'm amazed that people care this much about web browsers. Maybe y'all browse more than I do, but for the few dozen sites I might visit in a day, I'm more focused on the site itself than the interface for my browser.

In fact, I wish website interfaces didn't suck so much, but oh well. IE or Firefox or Opera can't fix that.
As a former web designer: amen.


My perceived Microsoft zealotry greatly amuses me.
I think it's your anti-open source development model zealotry. And it is amusing.

Good algorithms, good customizability, good time-to-market. Shit UI design, and shit testing, unfortunately.

[XPav]

Good algorithms, good customizability, good time-to-market. Shit UI design, and shit testing, unfortunately.

Man, I've got this closed source app, whats it called... oh yeah, Starfleet Command. Its buggy and crashes all the time. I don't know what's up with these proprietary source people, they just can't make stuff that's stable at all.

[Jason McCullough]

Do you know of anyone who can say "open source usability, in general, is better than closed-sourced usability" with a straight face?

[chet]

Jason, the forums you are using,the language it was written in, the database it connects to, and the OS it runs on are all open source. All easily installed, all highly functional.

But I guess you are thinking, "Gots to go lookin' to get me one of those ASP written forums that connect to MS SQL. That's the ticket. Wonder what that licensing will cost me?"

Chet

[Jason McCullough]

It's like you're a mind-reader!

[chet]

Jason, you are throwing up 1999 arguments in 2004. Can you find crappy open source software? Yes. Can you find crappy closed source software? Yes.

The question should be - is most popular open source software crappy?

No. The software people actually use, not some example you are going to find of some kid in Guatemala making his first program, but actual software people use, the distinction between open and closed sources is meaningless. You cannot tell them apart, except for how much less you pay.

Chet

[Midnight Son]

Millions of programmers VS 50K Microsoft programmers. Eventually, numbers will tell.

[Mehrunes]

So far this thing hasn't exploded and I found a plugin that randomly changes the browser's name. I'm now posting from Webraccoon. It's nice to see that open source is alive and well. :)

Now how do I make the homepage icon open my homepage in a new tab?

[Nick Walter]

I just couldn't resist posting this one:

Here's a reason I like firefox (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105_2-5247187.html?tag=zdfd.newsfeed)

[pms]

Seriously - what is wrong with the UI in Firefox?
Which is annoying, since I habitually use CTRL-N to open new browser windows.

That's why in FireFox it's
CTRL-T
for new tab, so you can still use
CTRL-N
for new window.

[extarbags]

Seriously - what is wrong with the UI in Firefox?
Which is annoying, since I habitually use CTRL-N to open new browser windows.

That's why in FireFox it's
CTRL-T
for new tab, so you can still use
CTRL-N
for new window.

That's the only thing, I think, that I still really want to change that I can't find a way to. I have it running in single-window mode, and now ctrl+n does *nothing*. I wish it would open a new tab.

Someone tell me how to rebind it.

[stusser]

Try using mousegestures! I don't know how I lived without them. They're as essential as tabs to browsing. Here are my bindings in opera-- with the exception of the chording stuff you can do the same thing in Firefox.

I have MX700 mice at home and work with hard buttons for back, forward, and reload page, or I would create bindings for them also-- chords work well for back and forward; thats the only way to chord in firefox.

up-right = new tab
up-left = close current tab (only use this in firefox)
left = switch to previous tab (LOVE this)
right = switch to next tab
up on top of a link = open link in new foreground tab
down on top of a link = open link in new background tab
chord back (right/left) = close current tab
chord forward (left/right) = undo close tab

[Ben Sones]

Seriously - what is wrong with the UI in Firefox?
Which is annoying, since I habitually use CTRL-N to open new browser windows.

That's why in FireFox it's
CTRL-T
for new tab, so you can still use
CTRL-N
for new window.

Except CTRL-N doesn't open a new window if you use the Tabbrowser extension, which is the only extension that makes tabbed browsing work vaguely like I want it to. With that extension installed, it does nothing at all, which is annoying because I am so used to using that to open a new window.

I get what John is saying about multiple windows to sort different groups of websites. I have to admit that I'd never do that. I rarely have more than five windows open at a time anyway--there's a limit to how much I can or want to read at once. So maybe I just browse differently than some other people. Someone in the thread mentioned that they like to open every thread with new messages on Qt3 in its own tab; I can't imagine why I'd ever want to do that. I'm not claiming you're wrong for browsing that way or anything--to each his own--I'm just saying that's not how I look at websites. I can only read one message at a time anyway, and clicking a link to look at a new thread seems no less convenient than clicking a tab to look at a new thread, so I never have more than one Qt3 window open at a time.

I see tabbed browsing as being useful for one thing: it groups all of my browser instances in one place, and thus unclutters the task bar and, more importantly, the desktop. Frankly, I see this as a minor convenience at best, since my task bar rarely gets that cluttered anyway (and if it did, I could always turn on sorting, which does essentially the same thing). It's nice to have fewer things on the desktop, though, so I still like it. Or I would, if Firefox would let me tell it when I do and don't want it to open new browser instances. Even in Single Window mode, I still get new instances sometimes. Some links open new instances for reasons that I can't fathom, and links within the interface (like the link to go get new extensions) always open new instances.

Because while I can admit that some people get use out of running multiple instances, I still think its lame that the program gives the user so little control--even through extensions (though I think that if they are going to include tabs with the basic program, they should include a comprehensive set of tab options as well)--over how and when new instances get spawned. Maybe by the time the program reaches v1, all this stuff will be sorted out. It certainly has gotten faster at rendering (like, a lot faster) since the last time I used it.

[Damien Falgoust]

Someone in the thread mentioned that they like to open every thread with new messages on Qt3 in its own tab; I can't imagine why I'd ever want to do that.
Just to give you an idea why this is nice:

Middle-clicking with Firefox opens a new tab but does not change focus to that new tab. That is, the index page retains focus. Thus, it's very easy to go down the index page and select those threads you want to read all in one go. It's much faster than going to a thread, then back to the index, then to another thread, etc, etc, etc. This way of browing is very useful on news aggregation sites for much the same reason.

Then you click on the rightmost tab and start reading. When you're done, use the appropriate keyboard shortcut to close the tab and you're on the next thing you selected. Wash, rinse, repeat.

To each his own, sure, but once you've done it this way for a while, it's hard to go back.

[chet]

Yes, that is one of the nicest features. The other nice feature is the open all in tabs on a favorite. I have about 20 sites I check for news a couple of times a day, I just click once to open them all, go through them middle clicking on articles - when I am done, i am at the start of the articles. It probably cuts my time in half.

I just wish - "close tab" was in the right click menu on a page, i imagine i could add it. Because going to the tab to close it - is such work.

Chet

[Stroker Ace]

Yes, that is one of the nicest features. The other nice feature is the open all in tabs on a favorite. I have about 20 sites I check for news a couple of times a day, I just click once to open them all, go through them middle clicking on articles - when I am done, i am at the start of the articles. It probably cuts my time in half.

I just wish - "close tab" was in the right click menu on a page, i imagine i could add it. Because going to the tab to close it - is such work.

Chetdunno what kind of "news" you're browsing, but if your left hand is free try ctrl+w to kill a tab.

[Mehrunes]

Mouse gestures are the answer to everything! No more of that crazy moving the mouse all the way to the edge of the pad any more. I never realized how lazy I was until now.

[chet]

Is there a spell checker for firefox? Not a dictionary lookup, but an actual spellchecker like iespell?

Chet

[DrCrypt]

http://www.dennis.ca/weblog/archives/000420.php

Works under 0.8, but not 0.9. There doesn't seem to be an updated version of this yet, but I assume it is coming.

[Ben Sones]

Hey, BTW, if anyone does know of an extension that lets you assign .wav files to events such as clicking on links (or even just uses the default Windows sounds), let me know. Because--and I know this sounds dumb--I hate not having the clicky sound.

[chet]

Since promoting it on the main page of POE News for two days, our stats have gone from 7% using mozilla, to 24%. IE has dropped to almost 55%.

It should be interesting to see the numbers come monday and people are at work.

To the lone person using a nokia phone, sorry.

Chet

[cyborg]

Hey, BTW, if anyone does know of an extension that lets you assign .wav files to events such as clicking on links (or even just uses the default Windows sounds), let me know. Because--and I know this sounds dumb--I hate not having the clicky sound.

Hmm... the problem there is that the way things are setup you'd need to alter the skins' code. But playing WAV files is easy enough anyway.

[Derek Meister]

The Mozilla developers have released Firefox 0.9.1 (http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/) and Thunderbird 0.7.1 (http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/) "designed to address early issues found in the new extension manager and automatic upgrade system as well as making changes to the new Firefox theme based on initial feedback."

[extarbags]

Wow... I went and installed 0.9.1, and now every time I run it, it says new updates are available, and the updates window finds the update to 0.9.1, despite the fact that it identifies itself as exactly that version! And to install it, I have to download the installer, and install it just the way I did twice already...

[Derek Meister]

Did you have 0.9 installed previous to 0.9.1?

[Sean Tudor]

So can we just install 0.9.1 over 0.9 ? Last time I uninstalled 0.8 it wiped out all my settings and bookmarks. :(

[Mehrunes]

So can we just install 0.9.1 over 0.9 ?

That's what I did. I haven't had any problems. Of course, I didn't have any problems before it, either.

[Al]

I take it back. The IE holes were getting too big to ignore, so I'm a convert.

Now, how do I get links that want to open in new windows to open in new tabs instead?

[Stroker Ace]

I take it back. The IE holes were getting too big to ignore, so I'm a convert.

Now, how do I get links that want to open in new windows to open in new tabs instead?ctrl+click is a start, otherwise you'll need to download and tweak the tabbed browser extension.

[Nick Walter]

I take it back. The IE holes were getting too big to ignore, so I'm a convert.

Now, how do I get links that want to open in new windows to open in new tabs instead?

middle click

[Al]

middle clickThat'll work.

[XPav]

Another reason to use Firefox:

The BBCode (http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=128&vid=196&category=Miscellaneous) extension that allows right-click context editing of BBCode like that used here!

[Jim Preston]

Ok, Ok. Count me as another convert. The security issues alone made me install Firefox, and I am liking it so far. I only have two small complaints (so far): how to auto-organize my bookmarks like I could in IE, with folders at the top and sites organized alphabetically undernearth. Also, sometimes I will go to type in a name/password in a text box (or the address bar) and it simply won't let me click there, at all, ever. I usually just close it and open it back up again and it will work. Probably just a minor bug to be addressed in the next version.

[DrCrypt]

Jim, there's an extension to sort bookmarks like IE: http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=51&vid=54&category=Bookmarks . You can sort your bookmarks alphabetically automatically in the "Manage Bookmarks" window but it doesn't carry over to the menus, for some reason.

[Calistas]

oo, thanks for making me make the effort to try this.. very much enjoying it now, especially the amazing ubb tool :D

Peter

[Jim Preston]

Jim, there's an extension to sort bookmarks like IE: http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=51&vid=54&category=Bookmarks . You can sort your bookmarks alphabetically automatically in the "Manage Bookmarks" window but it doesn't carry over to the menus, for some reason.

Shazam! That worked. Thanks a ton. It's seems like a little thing, but because I'm forced to use IE at work, I was all discombobulated when using Firefox at home. This little adjustment makes switching between the two a lot easier. Truth be told, one of the reasons I haven't explored all the extensions is because I don't want snazzy functionality at home that I can't have at work. Perhaps I need to talk to the IT folks about making some changes...

[Creole Ned]

How is extension support for 0.9 now? I'm still using 0.8 because of the lack of compatible extensions for 0.9 when it came out (and still lament the lack of something as good as IeSpell for any version).

Firefox is much improved but I still find its little quirks annoying.

[Sean Tudor]

Firefox is much improved but I still find its little quirks annoying.

I'm using Adblock, All-In-One Gestures, and BBCode. They seem to work fine in 0.9.1.

[Creole Ned]

Thanks, Sean. I'll download version 0.9.1. and give it a whirl.

EDIT: That was fast. 0.9.1 coughs up an error message when I try to run it. This happens even if 0.8 has been uninstalled first and had its folder deleted. Maybe there is some way to get 0.9.1 to work properly, maybe I'm overlooking something obvious, but it's simply not worth the time or hassle to try to get it working when SlimBrowser and Firefox 0.8 are already running fine.

EDIT #2: Electric Boogaloo: It turns out that the profile had been corrupted and was preventing Firefox from launching. True to a geek's nature, I couldn't rest until I found out why the program was not starting up properly, so I marched off to the Firefox support forum and began searching. I'll tinker with extensions later but for now, Firefox 0.9.1 has a stay of execution.

[Calistas]

I'm loving it.. gestures for opening and closing and switching tabs.. lovely speed.. ubb code support stuff and other thins to tinker with!

Cal

[Midnight Son]

Welcome to The Force!

[Calistas]

It's hard not to spend time searching for new extensions all the time :D

Peter

[chet]

Latest browser stats for QT3.
Internet Explorer 53%
Mozilla 35%
Opera 6%

I have never had a site in recent times have IE under 50%.

Chet

[Matthew Gallant]

Latest browser stats for QT3.
Internet Explorer 53%
Mozilla 35%
Opera 6%

I have never had a site in recent times have IE under 50%.

Chet

Wow, mine are a lot different:
IE 81.2%
Mozilla 13.2%
Safari 1.9%
Opera 1.3%

[Stroker Ace]

DAMN! 35% mozilla... that's pretty good for a site that isn't *about* mozilla or open source :D

[pms]

Latest browser stats for QT3.
Internet Explorer 53%
Mozilla 35%
Opera 6%

I have never had a site in recent times have IE under 50%.

Chet

Wow, mine are a lot different:
IE 81.2%
Mozilla 13.2%
Safari 1.9%
Opera 1.3%

You also have access to QT3 stats? Or is this for another site?

[synic]

EDIT #2: Electric Boogaloo: It turns out that the profile had been corrupted and was preventing Firefox from launching. True to a geek's nature, I couldn't rest until I found out why the program was not starting up properly, so I marched off to the Firefox support forum and began searching. I'll tinker with extensions later but for now, Firefox 0.9.1 has a stay of execution.

Delete the folder that resides in x:\documents and settings\%username%\application data
it's called Firefox, and delete any Phoenix or Firebird ones too. You should be clean then.

[Timemaster Tim]

Latest browser stats for QT3.
Internet Explorer 53%
Mozilla 35%
Opera 6%

I have never had a site in recent times have IE under 50%.

Chet

Opera is able to claim to be another browser so that sites that insist on browser checking can be fooled into letting Opera through. I know when I used Opera, I had the agent string set to IE6. Are you able to distinguish between IE and Opera masquerading as IE?

[Stroker Ace]

Latest browser stats for QT3.
Internet Explorer 53%
Mozilla 35%
Opera 6%

I have never had a site in recent times have IE under 50%.

Chet

Opera is able to claim to be another browser so that sites that insist on browser checking can be fooled into letting Opera through. I know when I used Opera, I had the agent string set to IE6. Are you able to distinguish between IE and Opera masquerading as IE?what do you want chet to do about that?

[cyborg]

Use devine knowledge.

[synic]

What on earth are you talking about? Is "in general, open-source usability is wildly inferior to that of closed-source applications" really a controversial statement?

Actually, for every singular useable commercial application there are thousands of horrifically designed pieces of Visual Basic or C# excrement.

[synic]

Here are my problems with Firefox: it doesn't make that little "click" sound when I click a link like IE does. Also, the options menu is curiously limited.... there's a lot of stuff in the about:config that probably should be included under Tools -> Options but isn't.

I HATE THAT SOUND

I disable every system sound in Windows the second I install it. Computers are meant to be seen not heard. ;)

Oh yeah, I fucking hate websites that play sounds or music without warning me first. I forget my speakers are turned on and suddenly I have shitacular 32kbit encoded musak blaring at me, and scaring the crap out of my fiancee who is sitting not 5 feet away at her computer.

[synic]

Honestly, they work better than Firefox's. And while I know you were being facetious, I'm 100% serious. I'm cool with the "build your own browser" approach, but the built-in tabbed browsing isn't just feature-light, it's poorly designed. Half the stuff that the available extensions fix should have never been broken to begin with. If anyone can explain why I would ever want to use tabbed browsing and multiple browser instances at the same time--which is how Firefox is designed to work--please do so. The default "sometimes stuff opens a new tab, sometimes a new window" approach is more confusing than having no tabbed browsing at all.


I enjoy the multiple window and tabbed window design, and use it regularly. I have one window up with four pages from the same host (www.csuhayward.edu, for when I need to see different sections of the university catalogue, the schedule, registration page, a teacher's web page, etc) and keep it all separate from my page that holds about five tabs of QT3 pages.

But that's just me...

[synic]

Ok, I've got Firefox all set up. Found a nice theme and everything.

Tab Browser Extensions basically gives it every function that Opera comes with, and there are a few other extensions I installed that add more cool stuff. It seems pretty decent, but I'm over Remote Desktop right now so I can't really judge its speed.

I might have switched.

Make sure to give "All-in-One Gestures" a whirl, it's pretty keen. Oh yeah, the "sort bookmarks" extension I find really nice too since there isn't a command on the right click context menu on bookmark entries like there is in Windows Explorer inherited shortcut menus (IE, Start Menu, etc).

[synic]

I'm really surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet, but I remember reading about how Internet Explorer's rendering engine has missed out on some new specs from the w3c such as most of CSS2 and all of CSS3. The other thing is that the engine is tolerant of bad code almost to a fault, so that programs that generate automatic (like Frontpage) could create garbage looking files that would still render "OK." This just encourages the same sloppy practices that Visual Basic's totally broken programming language encouraged for applications. For instance, compare the old GameSpy3D program or the newer Gamespy Arcade to All-Seeing Eye and you will see the difference that using C++ and MFC makes over using VB exclusively-- GameSpy's products are slow, take a ton of memory, and are sludgy in terms of responsiveness. So what you end up with is a billion websites designed exclusively for Internet Explorer users, and everyone on the planet is held back from advances in web page layout and design because nobody can effectively design for CSS2 or 3 without having an additional budget to handle older browsers like IE and those that use the IE rendering engine (AOL, etc).

[Derek Meister]

I'd be happy if IE would just fix their support of transparent pngs from a photochopping angle. Sure, there's a css kludge that will allow IE to display the pngs, but you have to install the relatively simple css fix on the web server, something most people are too damn lazy to do.

[Creole Ned]

synic, perhaps I didn't word my post properly, but that is the fix I found and implemented.

I still can't bring myself to switch to Firefox, though. Posting this from SlimBrowser. :)

[shift6]

Firefox users: gestures? I understand an "extension" being analogous to a "plug-in". What is a gesture? Do you manipulate the mouse in some fashion like moving left-right fast twice and it performs some function or something (as opposed to regular "menu navigation")?

If not, Someone should make it. Tthat would be like casting a spell on the intarweb. Cool.

[Duality]

Firefox users: gestures? I understand an "extension" being analogous to a "plug-in". What is a gesture? Do you manipulate the mouse in some fashion like moving left-right fast twice and it performs some function or something (as opposed to regular "menu navigation")?

If not, Someone should make it. Tthat would be like casting a spell on the intarweb. Cool.
That's exactly what mouse gestures are.

Think Black & White's magic system for web browsing. Only not as archaic.

[shift6]

OK fuck Mozilla. I'm going to convert to Firefox so I can cast magic missile and attack the darkness. That's seriously elite.

[Derek Meister]

There's one or two mouse gestures extensions that work on any 1.x version of Mozilla.

[XPav]

I use 2 mouse gestures.

Right Mouse + Left = back
Right Mouse + Right = forward

Saves the time of having to go up to the back and forward button. Couple that with the mouse wheel, and I don't even have to really move my hand that much.

[Calistas]

I use left and right to move between tabs and up to open a new tab and left-right-left to close a tab (scribbling the tab out!)

Luverly!

Peter

[DrCrypt]

I don't get gestures. Granted, they are neat, but they take just as much wrist motion to do as just moving the damn mouse to the button to begin with.

[JD]

I don't get gestures. Granted, they are neat, but they take just as much wrist motion to do as just moving the damn mouse to the button to begin with.
Yes, but gestures don't require hand/eye coordination. You don't have to shift your visual focus. (Well, if you can hit the back/forward buttons precisely without having to look to the upper left, good for you. Many can't.) With gestures you can keep the eyes focussed on the content and leave the navigation (as far as covered by gestures) up to the hands only.

[DrCrypt]

Lemme see if I've got this straight. The main advantage of using gestures, the big energy saver is that you don't have to move your eyes? You guys must absolutely loathe R.E.M.

[Calistas]

Gestures are quicker than hunting for buttons or hitting short cut keys. They are also just tiny movements (well when I do 'em).

It's just nicer.. you have to try it to see :)

Cal

[JD]

The main advantage of using gestures, the big energy saver is that you don't have to move your eyes?

I'm not saying that you're wasting loads of energy by moving your eyes. But I'd say gestures - if you're used to them - require less cognitive effort than the other approach since the the navigation is realized through the hand/arms only. Now, of course, those using buttons instead will not feel terribly exhausted compared to the 'gesture guys'. But many people simply feel more comfortable doing it this way, especially if it's something to be done frequently. Others may not. It also depends on personal preference.

And if you're using tools like Stroke-it (http://www.tcbmi.com/strokeit/) one can do all kind of commands in other applications and in Windows in general.

[Ben Sones]

I don't get gestures. Granted, they are neat, but they take just as much wrist motion to do as just moving the damn mouse to the button to begin with.

I agree. Especially since I have Forward and Back mapped to my two side mouse buttons anyway. That's easier than using any gesture.

[Calistas]

I have those too, but gestures to open new windows, switch tabs and close tabs are loverly.

cal

[Jeremy Johnsen]

OK, after using Avant forever I decided to try Firefox. Problem is I love Avant, and am trying to make Firefox as similar as I can. After going through three different tab extensions, everything works except when I close the browser. Avant will save all my tabs when I close the browser and Firefox closes them. Any idea how to change that?

Also I have three toolbars. One with the regular home, back, reload buttons, and another one for an extension called Stumle that I'll probably get rid of. In between these two toolbars there is a blank toolbar that is just taking up valuable surfing space. Any way to get rid of that blank toolbar?

Never mind on the extra toolbar, it was the bookmarks toolbar. :oops: Give me a few days and I might figure out how to make it save all tabs when the browser closes too.

[cyborg]

OK, after using Avant forever I decided to try Firefox. Problem is I love Avant, and am trying to make Firefox as similar as I can. After going through three different tab extensions, everything works except when I close the browser. Avant will save all my tabs when I close the browser and Firefox closes them. Any idea how to change that?

Yet again it seems I have to meantion MultiZillla (multizilla.mozdev.org).


Any way to get rid of that blank toolbar?

View/ShowHide/

[Jeremy Johnsen]

Huh. I install multizilla and when I restart Firefox it isn't in the extensions menu, tried this 3 or 4 times. It says it has installed and I need to restat, but when I do it is nowhere to be found.

[cyborg]

Guess MultiZilla doesn't work on FireFox yet. Shame for you guys because frankly it's a lot better with tabs.

[stusser]

Mozilla has had tabbled browsing built-in since version 1.0, released summer 2002. Phoenix/firebird/firefox has had tabbed browsing since its initial 0.1 release in fall 2002.

[Jeremy Johnsen]

Well multizilla still doesn't say its installed, but the tabs are saving when I shut down now, and thats all I care about.

[DrCrypt]

The Tabbrowser Extensions extension also does this. There's probably some option in aboput:config that does it naturally as well.

[Jeremy Johnsen]

The Tabbrowser Extensions extension also does this. There's probably some option in aboput:config that does it naturally as well.

I have a hard enough time figuring out which extensions are going to work best for me, let alone playing around with the about:config. I used it to enable pipelining by following someones instructions in this thread, but unless someone has a list of exactly what each entry in the config does, its worthless to a newbie like me.